(no subject)

[mousapelli]

maeglinyedi has a very thoughtful poll and some questions going on about Voldemort here.. Even if you aren't part of the Crazy Death Eaters fanclub, some of the questions are intriguing for the canon in general, it's worth a look.

In particular, "Do you think Voldemort would have won the first war, had it not been for Harry 'defeating him'?" made me think. I sort of wanted to say 'yes' because the whole scenario involves the destruction of a core group of the Order.

Because if harry dies, that means James, Lily, Peter (supposedly), and Sirius are all out of commission in one huge blow. But then i caught myself thinking 'and they're the most important!' and had to tell myself 'whoah back'.

Because there are lots of other Order members. Order members who have years more experience and could easily be more powerful than a handful of idiots a few years out of Hogwarts. And there are loads more idiots just like them where that came from.

And the list of people who died as Order members that Moody reels off to Harry is impressive, even in its (probably) incomplete form. Clearly nobody thought the war was over when the Prewett brothers were killed, amazing as Moody says they were. Nobody said 'Caradoc Dearborn's had it, that's the end for us!'.

Now, on the other hand, if the random chain of events ending with Harry is the only way Voldemort can be defeated, i suppose this is all moot. But that seems a bit shady to me given the scope and possibility inherent in a magical world as varied as this one.

Maybe there is something special about Potters (Gryffindor blood, probably), maybe Voldemort had been killing them off on purpose for some time and that's why Harry has no relatives, and maybe both James and Harry being dead would have an import that only Dumbledore if anybody would realize.

But then again, there is a tendancy to read the Potters and the Marauders in general as more important than they might have really been just because we know the most about them, and virtually nothing about anybody else in the first war.

I mean, look at it this way: you have a group of people (50ish?) waging an underground war. three of them die, one joins the enemy. Is it the end of the war?

Clearly we're supposed to think that James and Sirius were hot stuff, but assigning import to that when not in light of Harry's Voldie Smiting Powers is tricky business.

Comments

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

Now, on the other hand, if the random chain of events ending with Harry is the only way Voldemort can be defeated, i suppose this is all moot. But that seems a bit shady to me given the scope and possibility inherent in a magical world as varied as this one.

Add in the Longbottoms and Neville - Frank and Alice *also* defied Voldemort three times, and they were probably in hiding as well, though maybe Dumbledore (and Voldemort) knew something everyone else didn't (about the Potters and Gryffindor blood, as you say) - and things get very murky.

Not to mention that prophecies are tricky things. One of my favorite quotes is from Buffy.

The Master says: You tried. It was noble of you. You heard the prophecy that I was about to break free and you came to stop me. But prophecies are tricky creatures. They don't tell you everything. You're the one that sets me free! If you hadn't come, I couldn't go. Think about that!

And he kills her. But Xander revives her with CPR (or the PTB do; it's never quite clear) and she goes after the Master.

Master: You're dead!
Buffy: I may be dead, but I'm still pretty. Which is more than I can say for you.
Master: You were destined to die! It was written!
Buffy: What can I say? I flunked the written.

So I'm sure there's some loophole or trick to the prophecy as we heard it, and I'm sure Dumbledore knows that what it says may not be exactly what it means.

[cleverthylacine]

In canon it is strongly implied that the Death Eaters almost won, so I have to say yes, I think Harry won the war for the Order.

[muffytaj.livejournal.com]

Only Harry could kill Voldemort, yeah? And Voldemort was the key focus for the Death Eaters, he was the thing that made them strong and the shit, because he was their leader. Plus powerful in his own right - quite capable of killing lots of people.

Once they lost their SUPER-POWERFUL leader, it appears they fell apart and got taken. Plus, all the imperiouses Voldemort appeared to have people under seemed to have ended.

It's moral, as well as power, that matters.