J WEB の日曜日

[mousapelli]

今晩はみんな

最近,　天気はすごく変になった。一分間光る 、そして一分間雨が降る 　俄な雷雨が怖いよね？　

ねずみ達も怖気付く 雨が降る時、篭の下で隠れる。

私は夏が始まったから、あまりにも寝ている。 寝れば寝るほど、眠くなる！　　心配なんです。KAT-TUNと違って、今日はここで眠れたくない！

あまりにも寝ないようにしてね、みんな！　　お休み〜　

Comments

[ginzarhapsody.livejournal.com]

やった！モウサPの日記だ！♥

読んだけど、I was wondering if you would be up for some pointers on your Japanese? 言ってもいい？

[mousapelli.livejournal.com]

君の亢奮いいです〜

That would be amazing, actually. Because what I've got is a reader from the 1960's, rikiachan, and a bunch of Jim Breen example sentences.

also a guinea pig who is determined to sit on my keyboard...

[anamuan.livejournal.com]

nihongofrancais says i am better at giving explanations, so she's roped me into this too. This is what we've come up with. If you have questions or want further explanation, just ask either of us ne and we'll try to do a better job the second time around.

変ななった should be 変になった。 It was probably just a careless mistake, something you know but forgot, but to make -na adjectives (or adjectival nouns, or whatever the hell your textbook is calling them) into adverbs, you change the な to a に, then stick the verb it modifies on to finish the sentence.
So, something like "Eat prettily" (idek where this example is coming from. i'm sorry) would change 「きれい」 to 「きれいに食べた」 while "eat quickly" would conjugate as 速く食べた.


鼠・余り
ねずみ　and　あまり・あんまり　are seldom, if ever, written using kanji. Usually they're just written out in hiragana. I actually had one of my teachers telling me not to bother learning ねずみ's kanji because i'd never need it XD.


雨が降ったら、下の篭で伏する
雨が降る時 is better than 雨が降ったら. the toki makes it so that 'whenever it rains, [habitual action follows]'. '-tara' ending is more like 'if it rains' but it's the wrong kind of if. This is a crappy explanation, but i can't figure out how to say it better atm. :\\\ i'm sorry and full of fail.
I've got a question about the shape of the cage. Is it two connected cages, and they go hide in the bottom one? or is it that they hide in the bottom part of the cage? If it's the former, then yours is good. If it's the latter, then you might want to switch it around to 篭の下. Finally, 伏する means to crouch down, but maybe 隠れる (かくれる to hide) might be better.


すれば寝るほど
nihongofrancais and I are pretty sure it should be 寝れば寝るほど. For this construction, you just say the same verb or adjective twice. so if it's doing something, then すればするほど and if it's sleeping, then it's 寝れば寝るほど　and if it's drinking then 飲めば飲むほど, ad infinitum.


心配んです
心配なんです or しんぱいしてるんです。 -んです form can't attach directly to nouns or -na adjectives. it has to take a な before the -んです. Verbs and -i adjectives can take the んです form just like that.


KAT-TUNと違う、今日はここで眠れない
we're a little confused with this sentence in terms of overall meaning, so we're not sure if you said it the way you wanted to or not. ちょっと説明してくれないかな?


余りにもね寝ないで、みんな！
technically, this is a correct sentence, but it's a bit. um. very commanding. it's kind of like yelling at us all DON'T SLEEP TOO MUCH!! D<
It would be better to say あまりにも寝ないようにしてね、みんな！ It sounds round-about if you give it a direct english translation, but it's got the kind of pragmatic meaning you're going for. A bit of friendly advice.

[mousapelli.livejournal.com]

Thank you, I do appreciate the time it takes to explain. I think I got the outright mistakes, anyhow *checks for typoes*

I was wondering about the ni. I know it goes noun ni naru, and i-adj ku naru, but i wasn't sure about the na-adjs. That's always the rule? i-adjs go to ku, and na-adjs go to ni? what do adjs that are followed by no do?

I knew anmari, but not amari. And that's a shame because nezumi's kanji is cute! It looks like a mouse!

You're telling me that the -tara can only be used when it's conditional, but not when it's something that definitely happens? I know that using -tara plus a past tense verb means "when I did...this other thing happened", so does that have to be conditional too? I didn't seem like it was the times that i've seen it.

bottom of the cage. that's just a silly mistake. fail!

oh, i totally didn't recognize sureba as a part of suru when i looked it up. gotcha.

Okay, i see what you're saying in this instance. Can you, in general, explain to me what the loose n is? my book uses it, and I just don't get it. If I were to say "shinpai desu" would that be less/incorrect? what does the n do?

There's a KAT-TUN lyric, kyou wa koko de nemuretai, i want to sleep here today, but I DON'T want to sleep, so I was trying to say, unlike kat-tun I don't want to sleep here today. The first part I was totally unsure about, I know how to use no you na, but not what the opposite of that is.

lol, the nai+de form is in lyrics all the time. is this something I should avoid using in person? I mean, not that I think i'll be issuing a lot of commands in Japan.

i did break the comment box. (1/2)

[anamuan.livejournal.com]

ummm. some of this is rambly and it's probably all confusing. i'm sorry.


yes, exactly! ♥ na-adjectives always go to ni to make adverbs, while i-adjectives go to ku. perfect.
As for 'no.' Um. I'm not sure i understand the question. can you give me an example? do you mean like at the end of a sentence? or before 'desu/da'?
KAT-TUNと違って、今日はここで
nemuretai=i want to be able to sleep?


anmari and amari are the same--anmari is a bit more informal sounding.
it does look like a mouse! yay! logographic texts~ ♥ *nerds at you*


'tara' is always conditional. it's just that it covers some conditional situations where you'd use 'when' in english. this (http://guidetojapanese.org/conditional.html#part5) is a good explanation of the different conditionals in Japanese, though it makes the most sense if you start at the top and read straight through.
this may help as well. nihongofrancais says, according to her copy of genki (because i am too lazy for textbooks): "Sometimes the clause before tara describes a possible condition and the caluse after it the consequence that follows. Whether or not the condition is actually met is largely an open issue with this set of sentences. Sometimes, the tara clause describes a very probable condition and the second clause describes the event that will take place as soon as the sitiuation is realized. the tara clause can describe a condition that is unreal and contrary to fact. With this type of sentence, you express a purely hypothetical sitatuation and its probable result."


j;lkafj;lkfa the ん is the same as the の in のです。This is an excellent question and it makes me want to cry. I really have no idea if i can explain it at all. I've never gotten a good explanation out of anyone on it, so my usage is pretty intuitive and i keep my fingers crossed. I don't usually get corrected on it, even from the people who correct all my mistakes, so i guess it's ok.
ん(だ) is used to kind of imply that you're asking for (if you ad -ka) or giving an explanation of something. It's used for things like making excuses. If you run into a friend during normal work hours, you could say something like '今日はやすみなんです’ today is a holiday. by way of explanation.
for example, 「んです」の使い方がなんとなく分かってるけど、意味もなんとなく分かってる。でも、説明しにくいんですよ。I pretty much understand the usage and meaning of ndesu, but it's hard to explain.
the part that genki says that i think is useful is: (ndesu is) the link between what the sentence says and what it accounts for. And the example they give (which i've modified a bit here) is very helpful:
nikki: 一緒に飲みに行かない?
mousapi:明日テストがあります。(simple observation/statment)

nikki: 一緒に飲みに行かない?
mousapi: 明日テストがあるんです。(so I can't go out tonight*)

*essentially the ndesu means that the listener is supposed to draw some kind of conclusion about how your test is relevant to the conversation. Since i asked if you wanted to go out, and you said, 'i've got a test', i'm supposed to figure out that you mean you can't go out on your because you're busy.

Your 'shinpai desu' wouldn't be less correct. it would just have a slightly different pragmatic meaning. One of the things about all these things the speaker implies and the listener is supposed to figure out on their own, is that there doesn't have to be a 'right' conclusion the speaker was going for. When i saw 'sore wa chotto...' to express my not-ok-ness with something, i don't actually have an adjective in mind, whereas if i were going to say the same kind of thing in English, i'd have to have picked out an adjective of some sort to express it. "That's not cool" maybe, or "that's gross" or "that's kind of expensive" or "i don't like that" but. When i say it in Japanese, i don't always know what adj i'm going for ^_^;;;. I think the ndesu form is like that a lot too, especially in cases like your 'shinpai nan desu.' It's giving us some kind of additional information, or maybe it would be better to say, it's high lighting the information you've given us differently, more emphasis, maybe, and the idea that the worry is tied to the sleeping too much. but it's really more of a gut feeling than a 'and therefore she means X'

does that many any sense?

i can't believe this is so long (2/2)

[anamuan.livejournal.com]

oh, it's a lyric? ok. i was totally missing the reference.
KAT-TUNと違って、今日はここで眠れたくない。The first part was almost right, but since something was coming after it, you needed to have the continuative -te form. And the second part was almost right as well--you just needed to make it negative, because you don't want to sleep.


;jkafj;kfa i never thought about it, but you're totally right. they use it in lyrics all the time.
It depends on context? something like this, where you're giving advice, it's probably best to use the 'shinai hou ga ii' or 'shinai you ni shite' or 'shinai you ni shittara dou?' or something like that. more suggestion-y, less forceful. For things like 'don't worry,' though when you're actually telling someone not to do something (rather than giving advice), saying 'shinpai shinaide' is ok. In general, i say err on the side of less forceful. If, for instance, you wanted to say 'don't wait for me,' it's better to say '待たなくてもいい' rather than '待たないで'

Re: i did break the comment box. (1/2)

[mousapelli.livejournal.com]

okay, the ku/ni problem was actually a consistent confusion for me, so I think I get it now. Is the difference between i and na adjs that i ones come from nouns and na ones come from verbs? Since nouns take ni and verbs get the ku?

I thought there were some adjs that took no instead of na? or is that only for things that are really nouns and you're just treating like an adj? or is my book just faking me out?

-tara was previously explained to me as tara+nonpast verb = if i were to do x, y would happen, but tara+past verb = when I did do x, y happened. There was a shoonxreon talk, where reon used it a lot, like, when i asked-tara shoon this question, he answered thusly. but i guess it could still be sort of conditional since it wasn't a direct quote, like when I asked him these sorts of things...

Okay, I think I understand the n a little better now. I had sort of absorbed it as a way to soften sentences which might otherwise be impolite/unpleasant, like "i want to go home early today", so it makes sense that you're saying you use it for excuses and things. And also if it means that I'm asking you to draw a conclusion about how what i'm saying relates, I should more often use it in sentences that don't connect as closely as mine above do, because anybody could probably connect those two thoughts without me saying they're connected.

argh, i totally knew i needed a te for connected verbs! Brain! stop forgetting things you learned a million years ago! and you're right about the second part if I wanted to say I don't want to, but I was honestly just trying to be clever by changing the -tai to -nai because it would still sing the same but mean (roughly) the opposite.

not that anybody on this planet is going to both read japanese and know that kat-tun lyric and so it doesn't really matter how clever I am failing to be.

thanks again, I really do appreciate it.

Re: i did break the comment box. (1/2)

[anamuan.livejournal.com]

i did not pay any attention in The History of the Japanese Language, so I'm not willing to make claims on derivations. From what i do remember, sometime in the past, Japanese i-adjectives needed to have a verb on the end to complete the sentence (like English grammar requires adjectives have some kind of verb, even if it's just the copula), but there was abbreviation and eventually the verb kind of got absorbed into the adjective, and now you just conjugate adjectives and you've got a complete sentence. The na-adjectives *tries to remember* i think they were a class of adjectives originally that had their own seperate rules. I feel like the 'na' was part of a verb or something once? but i totally don't remember. A lot of them do come from Chinese, so the na was probably the productive morpheme used to make them, well, usable for the Japanese language. (if you want to ask about naga plants waving in the breeze, or the ridiculous mspaint pictures that came out of History of the Japanese Language, I'm much better able to talk about those). In modern Japanese, na-adjectives are also known as 'adjectival nouns' because they sometimes pattern as nouns do, but they have adjectival qualities as well. They're essentially their own separate class of things, and take na after to modify nouns (which is unlike nouns), and take ni after to modify verbs (which is like nouns). And then things like negation are also quite noun-like.
Oh! ...crap. i just forgot the word that popped into my head and made it all make sense. Sometimes, i think there's general confusion on whether a word is actually a noun, or if it's a na-adjective, so you'll get both after them. They'd both go to 'ni' before a verb, though, if it comes down to it. In those cases, using either no or na are fine after the verb, but it might just be easier to remember the 'na' because you can't go wrong with that (as far as i know).

that is a marvelously conscise explanation! i love it a lot. That is true. Con ni ittara, sensei ni atta. But in those instances, with the tara+past verb, it conveys a sense of the unexpected. You went to the concert, and even though you wouldn't have expected to run into your teacher there, you did.

even in sentences that have an obvious connection, using it is alright, as long as you want to emphasize the connection, i think.

jkl;jlkajl;kfa i'm sorry for taking so much of your time. my japanese is far from perfect, so i hate doing these kinds of things. If you ever spot mistakes in mine, please please tell me. i hate when no one tells me i'm making mistakes, because how will i ever learn that way?

Re: i did break the comment box. (1/2)

[mousapelli.livejournal.com]

oh, it's no worry at all, I love it. I used to talk Japanese/Latin grammar with Mark356 when he would check over my fumbling shoonxreon article translations, but he hasn't been around much lately.

It's the only way I learn anything at all about regular usage, because I haven't managed to work a class or anything into my schedule, so I'm just plugging along myself. So certainly I probably won't notice mistakes in yours!

Thanks again!