What's That Spell?
Dec. 14th, 2009 09:47 pmMousapelli: also, 97 people have clicked into the kisumai fic. you know how many comments i have? 5. this stupid fandom is for losers
Jackoweskla: it really is. i feel like i need to put a badly worded COMMENT PLZ on my fics to get comments
M: there must be some way to encourage commenting throughout this fandom. i don't understand why it is so crap
J: i don't either. everyone can't lurk, or else no one wants to contribute
M: nobody DOES contribute
J: and everyone comments on scan or dl posts... why is fanfic different
M: it's just like at school. i do all the shit and then everybody complains to me about it
J: give me an a
M: a?
J: like at school
M: lmao i thought you were going to spell something. GIVE ME A T
J: ahahahahhaha
M: WHATS THAT SPELL
J: NOT MUCH
M: ....apparently 'at'
Okay, but in all seriousness, I will again say, you know why JE has so few authors? because nobody comments so being a JE author sucks. Is it really so hard to say "I liked this" or "nice fic" or even just "I read this"? What would that take you, fifteen seconds? Ten?
Like, it isn't that I care that you want to lurk or whatever thing, but geezoo, 92/97 people couldn't even manage to say "nice job"? I mean, leave an anon comment if you're too scared omg to use your name (but really? why?) but goodness, don't marvel at why there are so few decent jr authors when it certainly isn't worth anybody's effort to be one.
so let's all go out there and comment on the things we read, okay? As a veteran of roughly 50 fandoms, I guarantee you making JE a more comment-filled fandom will get you more fic in the end.
Jackoweskla: it really is. i feel like i need to put a badly worded COMMENT PLZ on my fics to get comments
M: there must be some way to encourage commenting throughout this fandom. i don't understand why it is so crap
J: i don't either. everyone can't lurk, or else no one wants to contribute
M: nobody DOES contribute
J: and everyone comments on scan or dl posts... why is fanfic different
M: it's just like at school. i do all the shit and then everybody complains to me about it
J: give me an a
M: a?
J: like at school
M: lmao i thought you were going to spell something. GIVE ME A T
J: ahahahahhaha
M: WHATS THAT SPELL
J: NOT MUCH
M: ....apparently 'at'
Okay, but in all seriousness, I will again say, you know why JE has so few authors? because nobody comments so being a JE author sucks. Is it really so hard to say "I liked this" or "nice fic" or even just "I read this"? What would that take you, fifteen seconds? Ten?
Like, it isn't that I care that you want to lurk or whatever thing, but geezoo, 92/97 people couldn't even manage to say "nice job"? I mean, leave an anon comment if you're too scared omg to use your name (but really? why?) but goodness, don't marvel at why there are so few decent jr authors when it certainly isn't worth anybody's effort to be one.
so let's all go out there and comment on the things we read, okay? As a veteran of roughly 50 fandoms, I guarantee you making JE a more comment-filled fandom will get you more fic in the end.
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Date: 2009-12-15 02:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-15 02:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-15 03:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-15 03:05 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2009-12-15 04:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-15 04:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-15 05:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-15 05:56 am (UTC)It'd be one thing if I weren't posting to comms and not many people read me or whatever, but I know for a fact that lots of people do, and after I've spent hours or days working on any particular thing, it's pretty disheartening to know lots of people are reading it, but can't be bothered to say 'thanks' or 'nice work.'
And also, it's a two-way street. I like to read fic as much as I like to write it, and I know lots of good authors who can't be bothered to write in JE, particularly in jrs, because they know the comment response will be low.
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Date: 2009-12-15 05:46 am (UTC)I had this long sprawling paragraph here, but I think the point can be put across much simpler: Just as no one is obligated to write fic, others are not obligated to comment on it.
Realistically speaking, the majority of JE fandom speaks English as a second language with a great deal of junior fans being in the under-20 crowd with fewer media resources than debuted groups. And the fandom is a large and sprawling beast over multiple groups. Despite not being a bastion of quality,
no subject
Date: 2009-12-15 06:08 am (UTC)Fandom works a certain way, where some people produce things, fic or art or scans or what have you, and other people consume it. If all you have is silent consumers, then the community isn't working properly. Don't you think it's a better idea to encourage the people who are producing things, who will then produce more things and draw more people in who will in turn produce their own things? That's how fandom works.
And I'm not saying that people are obligated to comment, I'm just pointing out that if people did, they would get better quality fic more reliably.
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Date: 2009-12-15 05:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-15 05:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-15 09:41 am (UTC)Writers thrive with comments and criticism after all. Constructive criticism makes a writer grow and it enables him to grow in his writing skills.
and it's just so frustrating to see if your fic got over 100 clicks but 0 comments...
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Date: 2009-12-15 09:30 pm (UTC)It really is. And I don't suffer from low self-confidence or anything, but you start thinking, well maybe nobody DOES like it, and why am I even doing this, and if nobody likes it maybe I shouldn't post it to the comm because I'm just embarrassing myself...
*sadface*
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Date: 2009-12-15 11:45 am (UTC)What counter do you use? I tried using one once, but I found that it would count every refresh, so if someone commented, they'd be counted two, or sometimes three times. Likewise for me replying to their comments. Even so, that only takes yours down another 5 or 10, really..
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Date: 2009-12-15 09:39 pm (UTC)Oh god, as much as I really don't mind being friends with anybody and I do like when people say hi finally, I'm really just thinking '...then where are my comments D:'. I mean, all fandoms have that to some degree, and most anime fandoms aren't terribly high in comment-response, but JE is ridiculously low. I hear Supernatural is pretty bad too.
I really just stuck one of my dragon eggs on the last fic. It's not something I do routinely, although I do it during NaNo just to see, but I was curious since I keep seeing more and more people on my flist who say they are into kisumai, but my comments are actually getting less and less. The eggs keep track of both views and unique views (for instance I have 220 views and 133 unique views on that particular post).
It isn't something I do regularly, and I'm not about to start because it's honestly just depressing. I did sort of toy with the idea of sticking a poll on the bottom of fics that just said "I read this" with the one ticky box, but then I thought, why do I have to make it so easy? Why can't people just say thank you?
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Date: 2009-12-15 12:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-15 09:43 pm (UTC)I know that I get lazy about commenting sometimes too, but I've been trying to be good about it for a while now, because I just feel like if we could model positive community behavior, JE could be so much better about it! Most people I meet in it are totally nice and friendly, so I can't understand what makes people so shy.
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Date: 2009-12-15 03:01 pm (UTC)But I know how you feel. I don't put counters on my fic, but I do scanlate - and it's pretty heartbreaking when you see 130 downloads and one comment. I think it's 'cause people think "you don't know I'm here so it doesn't matter~"
(Ehh, and I'd be guilty of reading w/o commenting ^^;; but when the last comment is from 2008 or 2007 my reader side goes "...scary." even if my writer side thinks "I should comment..." But I'll do my best to comment more!)
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Date: 2009-12-15 09:49 pm (UTC)Goodness, I don't know which fandoms you think are worse, but I surely don't want to be in them. Smaller anime fandoms can be low-yield, but even in Loveless and Kyou Kara Maou I did much better than this.
When I find myself getting lazy about the comments, I just remind myself that even saying "Thanks" or "I like this" is something, certainly better than nothing. I think sometimes people feel like they have to quote all their favorite bits and gush, and it's not that I don't like when people do that, but it is time-consuming. I'd be just as pleased with five "this was fun!" comments rather than just the one person leaving me like a novel.
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Date: 2009-12-15 06:51 pm (UTC)HP fandom really did spoil us, didn't it? The only fandom I've been in since that has had close to the same magnitude of responses/support is Merlin.
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Date: 2009-12-15 09:51 pm (UTC)So spoiled. I still get a comment about once a week or so on that stupid fic about Remus Lupin being AIDS patient zero, or the one where Dumbledore is obliviating Harry over and over.
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Date: 2009-12-15 10:32 pm (UTC)I always read your fics (and re-read them sometimes). Reason why I don't comment... Part of it is pure laziness, part of it because I'm busy/tired, but also because... to me fanfics are quite personal. I feel like most of them (now I'm talking about fics in general, not just yours) are meant for the author's friends. When they write that their fic is dedicated to this person because of this picture or that quote, it all becomes so... privet to me. Like it's a thing among a group of friends. As a person who's not on the author's f-list, the thought of commenting makes me feel kind of random. Like I'm butting in on someone else's conversation.
But why is it so hard just to say "nice fic"? Honestly, I never thought about saying just that is good enough. I feel that the author deserves a decent comment, and not just two words. But because there's an air of things being privet, I feel weird about commenting.
I actually think not commenting in general is an evil circle. Not just among fanfic writers and readers, but also people on your f-list. At some point someone got lazy/busy and stopped commenting, and then it started to spread through other journals.
I feel like wanting to apologize for getting long and random, but I'll try to leave it like this. :P I hope you'll continue writing Kisumai fanfics. ^^
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Date: 2009-12-15 10:43 pm (UTC)That's an interesting perspective. Personally I do write fic for friends sometimes, but if I didn't want other people to read them, I wouldn't post them on my journal, or wouldn't post them publicly. I think when you post something on the internet, on LJ or anywhere else, it's with the expectation that other people, most of whom you don't even know, will see it. That's more or less what the internet is for.
But either way, if you liked something, you should tell the author, because otherwise they have no idea. I mean, if you do something nice for somebody, it makes you feel good to be told 'thank you' right? Getting comments makes me glad I wrote and posted even if they are just a few words. It certainly makes me feel better than knowing that there are 100 people who didn't like it enough to even offer a couple words.
So in short, it's your decision to comment or not, definitely. But I wouldn't keep from commenting just because you don't know the author, or because the fic is dedicated to somebody in particular. That's the point of using a social network like LJ rather than an archive site like fanfiction.net, I think.
And I hope to see you around :)
omg i wrote a miniature essay wtf
Date: 2009-12-16 02:08 am (UTC)Personally, I find who is commenting affects me more than the numbers. Like, if a bunch of strangers comment that's really nice and in no way would I discourage that, I really appreciate it, but it means an awful lot more if it's someone whose opinion or skill I respect I am much more likely to see that as an incentive to a. write more in that fandom/more of that pairing/whatever and b. improve said writing.
But back to JE fandom - I think a better analogy than flat out comparing, say, scan and fic posts, is comparing the ration of fic post comments to scan post comments to the ration in another fandom of fic post comments to manga/episode/other source material download post comments. 'Cause there are plenty of people commenting on those scan posts who have LJ accounts solely to access the scans and videos of their idols and are totally not interested in fic - squicked by it, even. (Though they probably don't think of it in those terms...) Obviously I have not exactly done a comprehensive numbers analysis or anything so this is conjecture, and you've got your hit counter numbers which undoubtedly give you a much more accurate idea than my conjecturing of how many people comment or just lurk in JE vs. your other fandoms. But I do think it's a factor to think about!
I wouldn't be suppressed if the ratio of comments to views is smaller, though, if perhaps not as drastic as it might first seem. JE seems to be many people's first exposure to an active online fandom - especially an active online fandom primarily conducted in English, haha - and when I say "fandom" I guess I should say transformative works fandom because I mean one involving fic. XD There's a certain amount of fandom custom that people who aren't aiming to become active in fandom themselves don't immediately take up - like, it's sure not rocket science to figure out Authors Like Comments, but if you're new to fandom and you're planning on consuming rather than interacting or producing, i.e. you don't want to be noticed by BNFs or make LJ friends or post or write your own fic and get reciprocal comments or whatever, you're probably not going to immediately jump in in an unfamiliar environment and start leaving comments right and left. Like writing a letter to the author of a book you like. Yeah, maybe it'll happen, but... tl;dr if you don't want to be part of the community, no one can make you be part of the community. XD
Argh, I'm worried this is coming out wrong - I'm not trying to say, "for all these reasons no one should even expect comments much less ask for them!" I just think there are a lot of factors at work that aren't immediately obvious. I personally would like to see an influx of JE fans interested in the fic side, i.e. unsquicked by RPS, with extensive background in other fandoms whether as readers or writers and see what happened. ..... for bands other than Arashi, since they seem to be getting along fine. XD
ANYWAY. I kind of got distracted here. Uh. Not everything is directly related to your post. I have always found JE fandom a fascinating creature. XD MY POINT yes comments are good for everyone keep 'em coming but don't let a lack stop you writing. :o
Re: omg i wrote a miniature essay wtf
Date: 2009-12-16 02:10 am (UTC)Re: omg i wrote a miniature essay wtf
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From:Re: omg i wrote a miniature essay wtf
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Date: 2009-12-16 03:50 am (UTC)PS: Its also your fault I have Coat West videos on my computer. :)
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Date: 2009-12-16 04:13 am (UTC)Honestly, there are times when I'm too busy to leave a comment right when I read something, so I totally understand. And it's also even a good idea to watch how people interact on LJ or in a new comm before jumping right to commenting yourself. The problem is that a lot of people never seem to quite leave that stage, even after they've been in a fandom a long while.
But anyway, thanks, and I'm glad you enjoyed whatever you've read even though you aren't familiar with all the guys yet.
confessions of a former lurker
Date: 2009-12-16 04:07 am (UTC)When I got into RPS, I was - and still am - uncertain about being a writer, because you're right, no comments suck. While I admire writers who say they write for themselves, I must be honest and say I write for comments. It's why we're all here, after all.
Aside from that,when I was just finding my way around lj,I would see a post and think "oh, well, she has x amount of comments already, if I post my own, I'll look like a complete retard." I like to think I'm getting over that, now!
Also, at the risk of getting bricked, I think a lot of fandoms are "closed off" in a way, that don't really allow new writers or readers to grow. I'm only just getting into JE now, and it seems like a broader fandom than others. *bricked* I think that too many authors are lured to a fandom by the shiny, but there's just an overflow of poor quality fic and established, decent authors aren't so prominent anymore.
Er... yeah. XD
Re: confessions of a former lurker
Date: 2009-12-16 04:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-16 06:12 am (UTC)COMMONSENSE, people. Basic politeness~ when someone gives you something or does something for you, you say thank you.
And I've always believed that creating things in a vacuum does nothing for anyone, so I totally understand why you're frustrated. You need that sentient being interaction, rather than just having your own voice ringing around in your head. I hope your readers perk up a bit, and comment at least a bit more, now that you've stated your piece ^-^.
I, for one, don't read much of your Jrs. fic, but when you post Arashi fic and such, I'm all over that XD. Thank you for your hard work, and I look forward to reading more of your stuffs <3!
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Date: 2009-12-16 09:56 pm (UTC)Yeah, it's the 'thank you' issue for me. Because all day long at my job I do and do and do, and nobody says thank you, not students or other staff members, or god forbid the admin (most of the time they tell me I'm doing it wrong, actually), and so to come to LJ, my place of refuge, and get the same sort of treatment is honestly the last straw some days.
But I'm glad you enjoyed whatever you have read, so thanks :)
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Date: 2009-12-16 09:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-16 09:52 pm (UTC)Also, I enjoy that you mention entitlement while being anonymous. Feel free to say it to my face like a grown-up.
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Date: 2009-12-16 07:09 pm (UTC)i've only come into the kisumai fandom this year, and to be honest, at the beginning i was reading to broaden my understanding of the kisumai fandom, pairings etc. and i'll admit, at that stage i was purely a lazy consumer, and a beginner at that (having avoided reading fanfiction of any fandom, especially of the risque variety, for as long as i could put it off...) since reading more fanfiction though, i've come to appreciate good writing, even if i'm not so knowledgeable about the contents of the fic itself. so i've been trying to encourage myself to comment when possible.
i can't really recall how many of your fics ive actually read (as i wasn't always paying attention to who the actual author was in the beginning) but your post here will definitely remain in my mind when i read any fics in the future, and i'll make sure to comment then too (by the way, i commented on your most recent fic about 10 minutes ago, but that wasn't out of pity, it was because i seriously enjoyed the fic and had been waiting for someone to write about that certain scene from the pz dvd.)
i've only heard good things about your writing, so i'll make sure to read more and give you both thanks and feedback ^_^
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Date: 2009-12-16 10:02 pm (UTC)Thanks for whatever commenting you have done, and I'm glad you've been enjoying yourself. I think it's pretty understandable that people who are new to a fandom just sort of absorb things at first, but the community only works if eventually people grow out of that stage and do participate as well as watch.
So anyway, hope to see you around.
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Date: 2009-12-17 12:06 am (UTC)I really enjoy reading your fanfic and have reread them at least a dozen times. I'm going to comment a lot more now.
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Date: 2009-12-17 09:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-17 04:35 am (UTC)I think it's better to have a few, well thought out comments rather than ask for more. Comments are nice, yes, but they aren't everything.
And once in awhile, a lurker will come and comment or send you a pm about your fics so even if there is no one commenting, there are people reading.
There are people who are ashamed of their English or are too intimidated by other comments to comment properly. There are also people who aren't used to LJ and don't understand the anon-commenting option.
Personally, I would be happy that you had 97 people looking at your fic. Knowing that people are reading should be enough, shouldn't it? I've been in a lot of fandoms too and JE is one of the smallest fandoms I've never been in. It is also a fandom where fanfics aren't as in the forefront as other fandoms (ie. Harry Potter or any anime fandom). All of these could be reasons for the lack of commenting.
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Date: 2009-12-17 09:29 pm (UTC)But as an author, the fics that I don't comment on are the ones that I don't like. And I can't help but think "maybe these people are clicking into the fic, but then backing right out because they hate it." And it isn't that I have terribly low self-esteem or anything, but when you routinely have low turnout, eventually you start to think, maybe I really am doing this wrong...
JE is totally in no way a small fandom. It's certainly not HP or Star Wars, but it's far, far larger than most of the anime fandoms I've been in. There's definitely a wealth of people here, although they may be involved in different pieces of or different bands, but then again HP was like that too. You don't have to know anything about Death Eaters to read Marauder fic, and JE is like that a lot of times. You are right that there's focus on other things, like translations or scans or what have you, though.
Anyway, if people like something they should comment, is what I'm saying, and it's silly to worry that you don't know the person or you aren't good enough to comment, etc. Anybody (who is a decent person) will appreciate an honest compliment from anybody willing to give it, regardless of who the commenter is or how good their english is.
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2009-12-17 07:36 am (UTC)And to be honest, I think if you try sharing scans or something like that and actually keep track of page views and download numbers, the ratio will be just as bad. There are more people willing to say thanks when downloading, but also more people who are willing to just leech and say nothing. It just seems like there are more people when the ratio might be around the same.
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Date: 2009-12-17 09:30 pm (UTC)It's true though too, that more people could stand to say thank you for downloads or subs, so really you're just making my point.
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Date: 2009-12-17 08:11 pm (UTC)I share other things with fandom too, but if I look at my d/l's versus comments, it's usually like 400-500ppl d/l one file and only have around 40-50comments at most. And fanfics aren't the main focus in the JE fandom, so getting little to no comments is the norm in my opinion. If your fic moved someone enough to comment, whether it be a criticism or a praise, then I guess you've earned it. If people don't comment, then I guess it might just be that they don't really like feel like they needed too. Sometimes I'd read a fic, think that it's good, and never really look back on it again. After all, it's fanfiction, I don't think people should take it so seriously.
no subject
Date: 2009-12-17 09:40 pm (UTC)What I'm saying is that people should say thank you when they like something. If I bake and hand out 100 cookies, and only get 5 thank yous back, what do you think the odds are of me handing out cookies again is going to be?
It's that I'm taking myself so seriously, as that, I think as a fandom JE encourages people to be passive and to lurk, and if some of the older people would encourage people to say thank you more often and be more active, we'd all be happier.
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Date: 2009-12-18 02:20 am (UTC)though conversely, i drew a lot more. but♥ thank you for being patient with me! |DDno subject
Date: 2009-12-18 02:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-29 12:13 am (UTC)*cough*
I had actually just intended to nose around your journal because Crys and I were talking about you the other night in regards to my hols fic. XD
Anyway, I have to agree with you. While I don't feel I am entitled to comments purely for writing fic (most of which is written for friends or myself), but it's nice to know that someone else besides me is enjoying it.
Anyway, now that I've efficiently been a creepy stalker... >.>;
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Date: 2009-12-29 12:20 pm (UTC)Nice to meet you anyhow. Anon fests are always comment-poor, it's true. hopefully we'll all get a few more of it once reveals are up.
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